MXMFW 7: Love Your Neighbor

We’re all about loving our neighbor here on My Ex and My Future Wife, but what does that mean exactly? What does the Bible say about it? How is it related to liberation theology and mutual aid? What random history lesson will Bridget teach us in this episode? Join us as we discuss all these questions--and more!--on this week’s episode of My Ex and My Future Wife!

 Episode Transcript Available here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iPvcAi1PqjAAZm6tIvY000p2ea-Ddj2G/view?usp=sharing 

References

Care Work: Dreaming Disability Justice by Leah Lakshmi Piepzna-Samarasinha

“Mutual Aid vs Charity” on fiftygifts.com

“Liberation Theology” an essay by John M. Frame on thegospelcoalition.org

A Theology of Liberation by Gustavo Gutierrez

@elledowdministry on tiktok

@nerdypreist on tiktok

“Radical social change: Searching for a New Foundation” by Adjoa Florência Jones de Almedia inThe Revolution Will Not Be Funded: Beyond the Non-Profit Industrial Complex

Women’s America: Refocusing the Past edited by Linda Kerber et. al. 

Bridget’s random history knowledge

Theo’s Buddhist background

Maggie’s tears of joy 

MUTUAL AID!

Transcript

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Theo (singing): In the beginning G-d made three lesbians who liked to talk, and they loved each other, and they loved G-d, but they have a few questions, and they think you might have a few questions too about religion, gay stuff, and life, so come join me, my ex, and my future wife.

Theo: Welcome to my ex and my future wife, I’m Theo

Bridget: I’m Bridget, I’m the ex

Maggie: I’m Maggie and I’m the future wife.

T: We’re talking about a very exciting topic today

M: One that makes me cry tears of joy on many occasions

B: Like today

M: Like today

T: Now can you, what is

M: Oh, I should probably introduce it, huh. Today we’re talking about loving your neighbor as yourself

T: Wahoo

B: Wahoo

M: The first time it shows up, and I’m reading the NIV version, for all my Bible babes out there

B: What does it stand for, my Bible babe?

T: What does NIV stand for?

M: New International Version, it’s like pretty readable and like 

T: As opposed to

M: As opposed to like King James

B: King James

T: The King James version of the Bible

B: No, it’s like bad, but King James was gay, and he had to commission that…

T: Well so is James Charles

B: King James had to commission his translation of the Bible to like, as like I guess an apology for his family about how gay he was, he was like “see I still respect the church a little, look I paid so much money for this Bible.” And they were like “come on, James, why are you so gay”. This is, maybe not the most accurate version of history, but I know King James gay okay, I’m pretty sure, does that sound right, Maggie

M: I don’t know much about that, but I believe it

T: That has nothing to do with anything we’re talking about  

B: I know, I know

M: Leviticus 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you should love your neighbor as yourself, I am the Lord”

T: Pogging

B: You shall not take any vengeance

M: Yes 

B: Nice

M: You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people

B: I’ll forgive those who have trespassed against me is what I’m hearing. 

M: Oh!

T: Oh! Oh!

(Laughter)

M: So, yeah this is kind of like the OG verse

T: It’s kind of like the golden rule of the Bible, you know what I mean

M: Treat others the way you want to be treated

B: Which is a terrible golden rule, and I talk about this with my kids all the time, but

T: Interesting. Well, I think love thy neighbor as thyself is like pretty good

B: Love thy neighbor, yeah, I really like it

T: Well, so we know this famous verse, Bridget’s doing a funny little dance, and the reason we have so much to talk about is because people use it in interesting ways.

M: People do use it in interesting ways

B: Yeah

M: So, after this, Love your Neighbor as yourself is like a really big part of the gospels, and the gospels are the four books at the beginning of the New Testament, and they’re four different perspectives and ways that people wrote about the life of Jesus and his teachings

B: John!

M: John, that’s one of them! Can we name the other three?

B: Paul!

M: No (laughs)

B: Oh (laughs)

T: Wait is it the four of them, the four guys, those four guys?

M: The four guys

B: Gospel of John

T: Matthew

M: Matthew and John, okay got two!

T: Mark, Luke

M: Mark, Luke, you got em!

(clapping)

T: POG

B: Good job Theo! 

T: In a book that I read as a kid, there was the thing that was like “Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, bless the bed I lie upon” and I’ve remembered it since then for some reason. (laugh)

M: Just for this podcast

T: Just for this podcast, little did I know when I was like 10 or whatever, whenever I read that. I really don’t even know what book it is, but I wouldn’t need it.

M: When I was re-reading

T: Thanks autism

M: When I was re-reading these gospels, cause I’m a sexy ass Christian, and I re-read the parts that talk ahout Love Your Neighbor. If you read chronologically, which is usually Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, Love Your Neighbor

T: That was the song

M: Yes. Love your neighbor is explicitly in the first three, and it like come up in John, but John doesn’t really like

T: John hated his neighbors

M: John hated his neighbors, no he didn’t

B: John said maybe ignore your neighbor

T: Yeah, John felt ambivalent about his neighbors

M: John said I’m gonna be gay, this is the man I was in love with.

T: Thank God, wait who was he in love with

M: Jesus

T: Oh

M: The beloved Disciple?

T: Oh, that’s who he was?

B: Are the gospels disciples?

T: Wait, was he Lazarus, is he the same person as Lazarus

M: I mean, there’s controversy there

T: Okay that’s what we were talking about in the other episode

B: I’m gonna be honest, I’m pretty lost right now 

T: Don’t worry about it

M: So, let’s start in Matthew, so this is the first time you see Love Your Neighbor as yourself. And in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, there’s always a moment where like a Teacher of the Law, or a Pharisees, or an expert of the law—they have different names—and they ask Jesus what’s the greatest commandment. And in Matthew, it says that the experts were trying to test Jesus, in Matthew and Luke it does, but it Mark it doesn’t explicitly say that, so it might of just been a guy like, “Oh, Jesus, you know some stuff, I wonder what he thinks the greatest commandment is”. And also, if someone’s claiming to be the Son of God, like you probably want to vet him.

T: True, it reminds me a lot of Buddha, Siddhartha’s whole journey because people did that to him too a lot.  

B: Like tested him

T: Well, they would ask him questions, or be like I. don’t believe you’re really enlightened or whatever, and then he would like do something, and they would be like “Oh Shit”. Like Jesus, they were similar figures

B: Yeah, no, I feel like that’s something people do except not in Jesus Christ Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints

T: The Mormon church, yeah

B: I think they believed John Smith so quickly

(laughter)

T: I mean

B: But that’s okay, we’re not gonna get into that.

M: We’re not gonna get into that

T: That’s why there’s a little bit of a difference between religions and cults

B: But we don’t have to get into it

T: We’re not gonna get into it

M: So, anyways, a lot of times, like because of the anti-Semitism, like I was kind of taught the Pharisees were evil and wanted to dethrone Jesus, so they wanted to trick him. But that’s not necessarily

T: Can you tell me who the Pharisees are because I don’t know

B: Yeah

M: The Pharisees were a sub-group of Jewish leaders, and it’s very historically based. They believed very specific theological things that at that time were a big deal, but now even though I’ve learned over and over, I’ve forgotten them. They were a sect of Judaism and they were leaders.

B: I’ve definitely heard of them, but I could not define them, you know

M: I could not define them

T: Yeah, okay

M: Basically, a group of Jewish leaders

T: But they were Jewish, I feel like is important

M: They are Jewish, and that is important. So, a lot of times, you’re taught that this testing of Jesus was somewhat malicious, and when Satan tests Jesus in the desert, that’s a different situation. But when the Pharisees are trying to figure out Jesus, it’s kind of in a different context. They’re like, “this man is saying he’s the son of G-d and a Jewish Prophet, so…” In Matthew Mark, Luke, there are scenes where Pharisees or Jewish leaders or experts in the law are like “hey Jesus, what is the greatest commandment” and all three of those times Jesus says “Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart, all your soul, and with all of your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment, and the second is like it—that is really important—love your neighbor—”

B: Wait, wait, wait I know this one, (singing) “You shall love G-d with all of your heart, with all of your spirit, and with all of your mind”. That’s what the Veahavta is all about, that’s what we do with the little kids, there is some sign language for it

T: Oh my God, Love that

M: Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one

B: That’s the Shema.

M: The Shema, yeah, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and all your strength

B: That’s the Veahavta

(laughter)

M: Okay, that’s the greatest commandment

T: Yes

M: And the second commandment

B: It’s two commandments, but okay. Well, no it’s one commandment

T: Can you start over cause we got really off track

M: So, the Pharisees are like “What is the greatest commandment”. Jesus says “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment” I’m quoting from Matthew here. In Mark, he quotes the Shema, like you said Bridget, “Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d is one, love the Lord your God…”

B: “Hear O Israel, Adonai is our God, Adonai is one”

M: Yes, and then “Love the Lord your G-d with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength”. And I think everyone in the audience was like, damn we know that

T: But I’m confused, are those the same but are they two different ones

B: Same

T: They’re the same, okay

B: They’re just two different, like, what I’m saying is that in a Jewish service you’re going to say those two things as separate prayers, but it’s kind of like one big commandment.

M: That makes sense

B:  I’m pretty sure, I mean that’s my understanding

M: That makes sense

T: And the second one, which is similar

M: And then Jesus twists it, not twists it, and then Jesus brings in another. “And the second is like it—what there’s s second commandment—Love your neighbor as yourself.  All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments”

B: Wow

T: So he’s saying that loving your neighbor as yourself is similar to loving G-d

M: It’s almost like people are made in the image of G-d

T: Oh my god, that’s crazy

B: Almost like there’s God in everyone.

T: True

M: That’s insane, damn

B: I don’t know

T: I don’t know almost

M: Crazy. So that is in all three, the scene where they’re like “what’s the greatest commandment” and Jesus responds like that

B: That’s in all three gospels?

M: Three of the four gospels, that’s with Matthew Mark and Luke

B: What was going on with John?

T: John’s too busy fucking dudes

M: I believe John’s gospel is mainly focused on the end of Jesus’s life, don’t quote me on that, but I believe that’s why

T: So are Matthew Mark and Luke, like all telling the same story but from each of their perspectives

M: Yes

B: They were all there, like “bro, bro, bro, listen I was there”

T: This guy!

M: Because it was in three of the four gospels, it’s pretty significant

T: Your messiah looks Gainsay as fuck

(laughter)

T: That’s what John said, quote me on that

M: And then in Mark, so if you’re reading through the gospels, you’ll hit Matthew first, and it’s like “Love Your Neighbor as yourself”, and love G-d, so you get that, and you’re like “damn okay I got this”

T: Okay, got this, loving my neighbor

B: Loving my neighbor like crazy!

M: Loving your neighbor and loving G-d. And then you hit Mark, and Mark you get that story, and you’re like “Love G-d and love your neighbor” and you’re like oh my gosh I’ve heard that before

T: I’ve heard that before

B: This isn’t new news but I’m loving the refresher

M: Loving the vibes, but then it continues. So then the person who asks Jesus in Mark says “well said Teacher, love God and love your neighbor, Love G-d and love your neighbor, you are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with your whole heart and all your understanding, and with all your strength and to love your neighbor as yourself, is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices”. And Jesus saw him, saw that he had answered wisely and said to him “you are not far from the kingdom of G-d”, and from that no one dared asked him any more questions.

T: So, the guy asked him the question, Jesus said the thing, and then the guys said what

M: Basically, summarized what Jesus said, basically said “Oh my Gosh I totally vibe, G-d is one, we should love G-d and love our neighbor”, and then he says, “these are more important than the burnt sacrifices”, and Jesus says “hell yes”

T: Right, okay.

M: You get it

T: Hell yeah, you get it

B: So basically, when Jesus was alive, how old was Jesus when he died

M: Uhh 30s is what I was always told

B: So the whole time Jesus was alive, the second temple was still standing

M: Yeah, he died and then 40. Years later

B: So really soon afterward, so they were still doing burnt offerings and sacrifices right around then, but little did they know, it was toward the very. very end of that practice because the second temple was soon to be destroyed and then never again. That was my question, that was a really big deal because the Second Temple had yet to be destroyed, and that was still a very. important part of Jewish practice at the time. I had an inkling that it was right around then, but I wasn’t thinking about it in the context of Jesus because I don’t tend to think about things in the context of Jesus that much. 

M: Makes sense

T: Me neither

B: That’s really helpful, and that’s like a very good perspective for me to be taking into account, so I appreciate that you made me think about that

T: I love our multi-religious podcast; I have a follow-up. Question, which you’re probably gonna talk about later, but can we interpret that in a modern context to mean like tradition is less important than loving G-d and loving your neighbor, like not necessarily tradition, but like certain rituals and traditions that you do to honor G-d are less important if they aren’t loving your neighbor and loving G-d.

M: I feel you, that is exactly what I was gonna say next. That’s a good question, and kind of what Jesus is saying, which is a little controversial of him

T: See I’m so onboard with that

M: And also, because burnt sacrifices are so important at this time, as Bridget said, that just emphasis how important G-d and loving your neighbor is. Like Jesus isn’t saying “fuck the burnt offerings” Jesus is saying “The burnt offerings are important, but do you know what is more important? Loving G-d and loving your neighbor”

B: This is interesting, so what I’m hearing is this is kind of the Christian commandment to end all Commandments, like the one that matters the most. So you know how in Judaism, so there’s 613 commandments and you can break all of them if you needed to if you’re in pursuit of saving a life, and saving a life is like the biggest, most important thing that you can possibly do, and that’s the commandment to end all commandments for Jews. Is this like that for Jesus?

M: It pretty much is for Jesus, and it’s also, he says in Matthew all the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments, so all the laws are supposed to fit somewhere in loving God and loving your neighbor. 

B: It’s really fascinating that the language that is being used to describe this is very similar to the language I’m accustomed to hearing about saving a life

M: Oh, really? That’s so interesting, that makes a lot of sense

B: And I don’t think that those two are in any kind of direct opposition, I think loving your neighbor and saving a life—they’re buddies, they go hand in hand.

T: Totally, and I think, and obviously those tie right in with loving G-d because that’s the. Whole reason that you’re doing all this, kind of

B: Because your neighbor…

T: There’s God in there. And when you love your neighbor you love G-d, is what they’re saying

B: And who could argue

T: Not me

M: And to quote Les Miserable, “To love another person is to see the face of G-d”

T: That is a good quote

B: It’s a really good quote from Les Miserable

T: And I agree, bro

B: One of Victor Hugo’s top quotes, I don’t know why I was about to say, one of Victor Hugo’s fattest takes

(laughter)

M: His juiciest, absolutely caked up take

(laughter)

T: Victor has an absolutely caked up take, and it’s riding along with Jesus having one

(laughter)

M: Speaking of saving a life, Jesus continues to build on loving your neighbor in Luke, which is the third gospel

T: So Luke builds on Jesus building on it

M: Yes

B: Are the gospels like they’re own little takes, or are they like “My favorite Jesus quotes, a compilation”

M: Yeah, they’re each telling the story of Jesus differently

B: So, it is kind of like my favorite Jesus quotes

T: It’s like Jesus’s life highlights reel, by Matthew, by Mark, by John. And John’s has a lot more dick in it, it seems

B: Were the gospels buddies?

T: They’re the disciples, weren’t they?

M: Yeah, except for Luke

T: What? What the fuck, why is Luke in there then?

M: Well Luke is written several years after the events of Jesus, and he interviews a bunch of people and was like “who was Jesus”

T: So, Matthew, Mark, and John were disciples

B: What is the difference between a disciple and an apostle? 

T: Yeah, wait

M: A disciple was one of the 12, and an apostle was someone who witnessed Jesus resurrected and went to go tell about it

T: So, they’re completely different

M: Well, all of the disciples are technically apostles—except for Judas—because they saw Jesus resurrected

T: So, they’re all disciples and they’re all disciples

M: All disciples are apostles, but not all apostles are disciples

T: Cool, cause not Judas because he

M: No

B: Too sexy

T: He was too gay and got kicked out

M: No, that’s not the story guys

T: He tried to kiss Jesus and got kicked out

M: No

B: Maggie, I don’t think you’re going to be able to change their mind about that

T: I am here to do a little heresy

(laughter)

T: Just a little bit

B: I don’t think it’s heresy if you never believed it to begin with

T: It’s not heresy for me

M: Okay, can I talk about Luke now?

T: Absolutely not

B: Please, sorry

T: Yeah, go ahead

M: So in Luke, a teacher of the law is like “what’s the most important commandment” and Jesus. Says “Love God, love your neighbor” and then this teacher of the law says “who is my neighbor”

T: Great question

M: And Jesus says the story of the great Samaritan—the good Samaritan

T: The GREAT Samaritan!

M: Which is about man who was going to Jerusalem to Jericho, and was attacked and beaten and half-dead and lying on the ground

B: We’ve all been there

M: We’ve been there. A priest passed by him and did nothing, a Levite passed by him and did nothing

T: can we get a definition on that, what’s a Levite

M: A Levite was one of the people who kept the law, like a Jewish—it was like here are all these important Jewish religious leaders who are walking on, which is basically what Jesus is saying. A priest, a Levite, and a Samaritan

T: Who was that?

M: Someone that the Jewish people really hated, there was a lot of animosity. They did not expect the Samaritan to be the hero of the story

B: They were probably like, and this guy came and everyone in the crowd is like “ew”

T: BOOO! We hate a Samaritan

M: But what did the Samaritan do? He went and bandaged the man’s wounds, pouring oil and wine on them, took him on his own donkey, brought him to an inn, took care of him, and the next day he gave the innkeeper a lot of money to look after him, and said “I’m gonna come back and if there’s any extra expenses, I will reimburse you

T: Okay, Pog.

M: And that is Jesus’s example of who is your neighbor and how to love your neighbor. So, loving your neighbor means saving their life?

T: We’re tying it back together!

M: We’re tying it back together you guys!

T: Okay well, so that’s interesting

B: Wait, can I just say, sightly tangentially, you explaining what a Samaritan is to me answers a question that I had as a child that I use to bring up and no one ever gave me a good answer about

T: What question

B: One time I was watching the news with Katie’s family as a kid and they were telling some Good Samaritan story, and I turned to Katie’s mom and I went “ they’re always talking about Good Samaritans, no one every talks about bad Samaritans”

T: That’s a great point!

B: Why not! And now I know it’s because classically, a bad Samaritan was all of them

T: Was just a Samaritan.

B: Was just a Samaritan, and a Good Samaritan was a standout, I guess, even though we’re not participating in some kind of like ancient bigotry that we don’t know anything about

T: It’s interesting because Samaritan has a good connotation now because it’s paired with Good and then paired with the story of the Good Samaritan because nobody know what the fuck a Samaritan is anymore. 

B: So, what Jesus was really doing was a giant PR overhaul for Samaritans

T: Basically, yeah

M: You’re absolutely right, and I think the most helpful sermon I’ve heard on the Good Samaritan story is that the people listening to the story would have expected a priest and a Levite to help this man, and they would not in a million years expect a Samaritan to do that, it would be like, just for an example, I would hear about an activist, and a mutual aid organizer walk by this hurt person, and then like a trump republican walked by him. It would be that kind of shocking to me, to hear this story.

B: Except it wouldn’t be shocking to me for, it would be weird for me for a mutual aid person to not help someone, that’s like their whole job, but it wouldn’t be weird for me for a Trump Republican to help someone just who had like fallen down.

T: Honestly, people cannot surprise me anymore because the weirdest people will do the things you don’t expect them to, which I think is the moral of the Good Samaritan thing anyways. 

M: Yeah

B: Yeah, I can easily imagine how a lawyer—if we’re talking about how Levites kept the laws—I can easily imagine how a lawyer not helping someone

T: A lawyer, any type of law enforcement, those bitches don’t help anyone

M: Exactly, but in the context of this story, 

B: No it’s fascinating in the context of this story, I’m just thinking about…

T: Totally, capitalism (incoherent mumble). So like lawyers are very, that’s a job where you are under the thrall of capitalism, and then obviously law enforcement

B: They’re so busy, they don’t have time to help someone at the side of the road, have you ever met a lawyer who has free time?

T: The other thing I was gonna ask is, so this, Luke is telling this story, right?

M: Yes.

T: Which means, this is like third hand because he’s asking somebody about it and that person is telling him what Jesus said to them?

M: Yes, or even like, yeah, my bro was at that event and the shit was crazy

T: And he said that Jesus said this to another guy, who knows how many people’s its gone through. So, it’s interesting, so do any of them tell a story and it’s Jesus talking to them? Like it’s them witnessing it firsthand, like in Matthew is he there, or is he hearing a story

M: Most of the other gospels are firsthand

T: So, Matthew and Mark saw him say this to someone, or Matthew saw him say the commandments

B: Is this story in all the gospels or just Luke

M: It’s just in Luke which is super interesting

B: So, this is potentially a garbled one, but I like it so I’ll let it slide

M: It also makes sense that this story is what they would remember, if he was just asking a random dude about Jesus

T: They’d be like, oh he said this crazy thing which totally changed my life

B: He met a Samaritan that was actually pretty chilling, that was pretty chilling 

M: When I was little and heard Love Your Neighbor, especially because we live in the United States, so we don’t really know our neighbors

B: I mean speak for yourself

T: Speak for yourself, I know my neighbors

B: Maggie, you know your neighbors, you say his name all the time and then all the little kids

M: I guess that’s true, but I was like Love Your Neighbor, they’re just like random people who live next to you, like they’re nice and all, like I’ll be polite to them, but like love them?

T: In American culture it’s not really a word that elicits a lot of emotion because it just like the people who live next to you rather than like what it actually means

B: Your community

T: Because in Jesus’s words it means something else, like neighbor doesn’t just mean the people who live next to you, it’s everybody around you. 

B: It’s the people in your community and the people you’re encountering

T: I feel like you’re there’s an emphasis on people you don’t really know, like it’s people in your community and you have some, you know, obligation sounds like it’s a bad thing, but like you have a responsibility to help the people in your community even if you don’t know them or have any person connection with them. Is that kind of the idea?

M: Yeah, so exactly, so I was like these random people wbo are in my life, like I have a responsibility to love them? And that’s like exactly it.

T: Exactly what it is

M: These random people who I’m connected to in some way, they are Imago Dei and I am like 100% responsible for loving them

T: Which I love that.

M: Even in American Individualism, love your neighbor is still incredibly painful

T: Oh my god totally

B: It’s just something we could handle working on a little, I don’t think it’s something we should ever stop doing

T: Because individualism is in direct opposition to love your neighbor

B: individualism runs counter to love your neighbor, but in a way that’s like not good, we need it more than ever

T: Yeah, and that’s why people say, “I don’t know how to explain to you that you should care about people”, that’s what love your neighbor is, it’s like just because you don’t know these people and you don’t have any personal connection to them doesn’t mean you shouldn’t care about their life and wellbeing, like you should care about people just inherently

M: And G-d thinks it is so important, he thinks that is as important as loving him, like that’s how important loving random people is to G-d.

T: Which I see how this ties into mutual aid so much. 

(laugher)

M: Oh my gosh that is my next, 

T: Oh my god I love making segues

M: Love to make segues

T: fuck yeah, let’s go 

M: So, how is loving your neighbor, how does that relate to charity, mutual aid and reparations?

T: Charity is actually bad

B: Charity is bad, let’s get into it

M: The best answer that I could find that makes the most sense in my head is Charity is a vertical relationship, so the people with resources get to like chose who they bless and are like “who deserves my money”

B: Well also, we need to remember that the charity and non-profit model and like, sort of those systems were created in the United States in post-WWII America because during WWII women were brought into the workforce because they men were at war, and when the men came back, they wanted their jobs back and they wanted women out of the workforce and they wanted to return to traditional—that’s where we got the creation of the nuclear family in a new way. That’s how we got the “traditional” family values, and women had just been given a taste of the workforce, and they were like blah blah blah, we want to be able to do stuff—they didn’t say “blah blah blah” I don’t know why I said that—they said we want to be able to stuff, we are becoming more and more educated, we need pursuits outside the home. There’s a ton of stuff about how bored women are, I was just listening to a whole thing about the Stepford Wives and how it was like a commentary on how women needed stimulation basically besides like cleaning the house and caring for kids because they were lonely and bored So, for the American white upper-middle class woman who was not highly educated and wanted to work, but the men didn’t want to let women work in their jobs, that was when we started to create basically the “career path” of philanthropy and systems of charity and philanthropy were invented so white rich women could feel good about themselves by participating in this charity model and have something to do, where they’re like interacting with other adults and theoretically solving social problems, but through the creation of this, a lot of organic and long-standing mutual aid networks were destroyed and co-opted and that’s when were getting a lot of basically the charity model as we have it now and it’s pervasiveness in the American community. Like you’re saying, it’s a vertical relationship, so instead of community supporting each other, basically white rich women were like actually, if you need resources instead of, like, turning to the community, you have to turn to us, and we get to decide who gets resources.

T: It’s basically people who don’t have resources that need them, their fate is at the hands of like rich white people who are the worst

B: Sorry did a little monologue

T: No, it’s good, I loved it

M: It’s very good

B: That was our little pulled out of my ass history lesson about the charity model in the United States, take it all with a grain of salt because I was not citing my sources, I just know (laugh)

M: And also there’s a big part of charity, which is I’m the only one providing in this relationship, like you said Bridget, I have the resources and you don’t, like there’s nothing you can give me

T: And that makes it feel really, like, kind of—it puts the person receiving the charity in a position where they can’t do anything that the person giving them the charity doesn’t want them to do, you know what I mean? They’re kind of trapped in this relationship where they have no power

B: It’s dependency

T: Right, it’s dependency completely, like, unwilling kind of 

B: And people also do charity because of the nature of the relationship. People do charity for not good reasons, like they do it to make themselves look good and feel good instead of being genuine a lot of the time 

T: A lot of charity feels really, kind of, performative in a sense, but also just like self-righteous, like you’re not doing this to help people, you’re doing this because you will seem like a good person, which is fucked up, and so not loving your neighbor.

B: Okay, wait, I have two things to say about this. One, because Maggie referenced les mis earlier, I get to reference a different musical A Gentleman’s Guide to Love and Murder and say there’s a really good song that satirizing white women’s charity in it called Lady Hyacith Abroad and that’s my shout out to that song. The other thing I was going to say is there is several different levels of charity in Judaism and anonymous charity is prized much more highly than like doing something with your name on it

T: Which is great and also is, like, more like that’s loving your neighbor more than. You should get no recognition for giving aid to people, that’s a weird thing to have happen.

M: And Jesus said, if you give money to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right is doing. In comparison to charity, mutual aid. It’s kind of a buzzword right now, but kind of is more horizontal of like, we all have a part to play in this community, we’re all actively participating in this community, and we’re not just trying to throw money at problems, we’re trying to fix these problems because they affect our community, and we care about our community. 

B: For the community, like its very community based.

M: Charity’s like oh these people need me, and here’s my money, and mutual aid is like, oh we need each other, and a good book on that is Care Work: Dreaming Disability Justice and it’s about disability care and support systems, and all that, so if you wanna look up mutual aid. It’s like, the people who you support because they’re part of your community, if you need help, you can expect that they will support you back. Not in a quid pro quo kind of way, but of like, we’re community members, and I’m helping this person because they’re part of the community, and they’re gonna help me because they’re part of my community.

B: It’s not doing something and expecting anything back, but it’s doing something and knowing that if everyone is invested then everyone is gonna be taken care of, and maybe like you will never end up being the one who needs to be taken care of, but having the security of being in that position, it’s okay, like everyone’s got each other’s back.

M: And reparations, the best way I can think about this is acknowledging how systems have given you power, and given you vertical power over others, and trying to challenge that by trying to equalize, I made a graph

B: You made a graph?

M: With my heart

(laughter)

M: Mutual Aid

T: Good

M: Is a cool way to love your neighbor

T: Pretty cool

B: Very cool. I would say mutual aid is one of the best ways probably to love your neighbor

T: I would say so to

B: Give them a little hug

T: I would kind of say, mutual aid is the way to love your neighbor, if you expand the definition especially to like things outside of just money or resources, you know, people helping each other and knowing that somebody also will help them in their time of need with whatever, that’s love your neighbor

B: People inviting each other and watch tv, because you know, sometimes people don’t need food or money, but they still need company and companionship

T: Being there for each other is so good in a community, I love to think about it

M: Mutual Aid does sound like a scary socialist buzzword

T: It does

M: But there’s a good chance you’re probably already practicing mutual aid

B: Although there’s nothing,I love more than a big, scary, socialist buzzword 

T: Individualism tries so hard to tell us that we don’t anybody anything, and we also should be able to provide for ourselves at all times, and it’s just not realistic, and also, you’re gonna feel a lot better if you don’t feel like everything is actually on you, about your wellbeing, you know? Like, it’s good to feel taken care of and it’s also, like, good to feel like you’re helping someone. Maybe I’m just a two, it’s a good time.

M: Some ways you might have secretly been practicing mutual aid, letting your friend stay with you when they come to town, so they don’t have to buy a hotel because you enjoy their company and want them to stay somewhere for cheap.

B: Maggie’s done that

M: Mutual Aid, when you say “hey do you wanna go get McDonalds” and your friend says “I don’t have any money” and you say “I didn’t ask if you had any money”. That is mutual aid. I grew these in my garden, great I made you jam out of them. Mutual Aid!

B: Garden-based mutual aid

M: My neighbors didn’t take their trashcans out, I’ll take them out for them, cause I’m right here taking my trashcans out. Mutual Aid. Practice Mutual Aid today!

T: Hey my neighbors across the street, our kids have clothes that they’ve grown out of, but you have smaller kids, here are these clothes for you. Mutual Aid. That’s one of the biggest things that my family did as a kid, is we had many people across the city that we knew where we would just, the clothes would get passed down, you know? Love to do that, it’s great.

M: It’s a cycle.

T: It’s a cycle, and if we didn’t want some of the clothes, they would go to somebody else, or be donated. Listen

B: If you have air conditioning and your friend doesn’t have air conditioning and you’re in a record-breaking heat wave, and you let them sleep on your floor, MUTUAL AID BABY

T: It’s like really good to think about mutual aid, I think

M: Yeah, it doesn’t make me emotional at all (laughter).

T: I love helping!

(laughter)

T: This podcast is full of twos, except for Maggie. You’re a one, which is enough

B: You’re a helper

M: Any other examples of mutual aid

T: There’s so many, there’s so many. June letting me take their Effexor when I’m out because we take the same medicine.

M: My favorite way to do mutual aid is to go on walks with people, especially my grandma and my great aunt because we both are lonely in COVID

T: I send people DBT worksheets sometimes

(laughter)

T: Which I don’t know if that counts as mutual aid, it might be a problem. If I don’t do it too much…

M: Listening to your friend talk about their hard day, 

T: Yeah, Mutual Aid, god it’s so good! When you have a relationship where you can both talk to each other about your hard days instead of just one person doing it and the other person listening, and that person never getting to talk about it

B: Reece texting me today telling me that she can get me anything at her comic bok store where she works because there’s a sale today, and I can’t go, it’s in New Orleans

M/T: Mutual Aid

T: My roommate friend’s sex partner or something asking me what I like from Starbucks because he works at Starbucks and so he’ll give me the stuff that’s left in the fridge.

B: I give, okay I have a car, and me giving two of my coworkers rides home yesterday because I didn’t have any plans after work and it was smokey and I didn’t want them to have to walk and take the bus, and then they entertained me on my job

T: Every time you’re at work and there’s accidentally extra food, and so all of the workers share it instead of throwing it away, that’s mutual aid fighting individualism and capitalism, I’ll say it

M: So, comment down below the favorite way you practice mutual aid

T: Today or another day

M: Uh, liberation theology, okay, so we’ve talked about how loving your neighbor is mutual aid, how is to quote

B: Wait, I have one more mutual aid, which is Ella inviting me to her Taylor Swift Party

M: That is mutual aid!

B: Because I need it emotionally, emotional mutual aid

T: Is having sex with your friends mutual aid? 

(laughter)

T: I think it is

M: Comment down below 

B: There’s not a comment function

T: There is a comment function

B: What?

M: There’s like a leave a review

T: Oh yeah

M: Anyway

T/M: Tweet at us

B: Instagram us!

T: We have a twitter, @mxmfwpod, your favorite way to do mutual aid and we’ll kiss you on the lips

B: Tag us in your Instagram story with your favorite way to do mutual aid

M: So, we’ve talked about how loving your neighbor is mutual aid

T: We have

M: Now, we’re gonna talk about, I’m gonna quote @Elledowdministries, who’s on TikTok, they’re an awesome priest on tiktok. Loving your neighbor is fighting for their liberation

T: Yes

M: Let us discuss Liberation Theology

T: Bridget is snapping

M: Liberation Theology is kind of a really broad movement and a lot of different people have contributed to it, but to kind of like place it in the world, it was like a 1960s Catholic movement coined by a Peruvian Catholic Preist called Gustavo Gutiérrez,

B: Nice, go Catholics!

T: Gutiérrez?

M: Yes

B: Good work guys

M: In his book a Theology of Liberation, but a lot of different people have like contributed to it, and it has become a way for people to use the Bible to challenge class and race-based oppression and it’s like a combination of like Biblical loving your neighbor and like Marxism

T: Awesome, my favorite thing

M: So, it’s like really cool. So, to quote the Gospel Coalition, which is who I got a summary from, “for these theologians—liberation theologists—it is not enough to support the oppressed, one must be committed to the social movements, even revolutions, dedicated to overturning the structures of society. So, to quote @NerdyPreist on TikTok, G-d is on the side of the oppressed and desire for their oppression to be overcome, so that’s some really sexy liberation theology 

T: Love that

M: And, do we need to talk about why liberation theology is loving your neighbor?

T: No

M: Not wanting your neighbor to be systematically oppressed 

T: It’s pretty clear at this point

M: If you love your neighbor, you should want them not to be oppressed, I think.

B: You’re probably not loving your neighbor hard enough.

T: And that’s why if you’re being homophobic to your neighbor, it’s actually not loving them even if you think being gay is a sin, fun hot take for everyone out there, just if you were wondering.

M: I think, just to wrap up, one of my hottest takes that I made last semester was talking about how mutual aid inspired by religion or spirituality or inspired by like, a all loving G-d demonstrates how religion and spirituality can play a really, really important rule in social change, and I kind of learned this from Adoja Florencia Jones de Elmeida, she wrote an essay in a book by INCITE, which is like challenging Non-Profit Industrial Complex, and she writes that various faiths and systems, including Christianity, have allowed social movement worldwide to—this is where her quote starts—“do the impossible because of their faith based commitment to the practice of spiritual and material liberation”

T: Cool

M: And so, religion can be an important part of social movements, like okay, Christianity was used to justify race-based chattel slavery and Jim Crow laws, which is absolutely horrendous, but it also inspired and maintained the Civil Rights Movement. And European Colonizers used Christianity to justify the genocide of indigenous people, but Christianity through liberation theology allowed many Latin American countries to gain freedom from colonial powers, so I came to the conclusion that a deconstructed and decolonized faith can be an incredibly powerful force of social change

B: Nice, I like that take!

T: I like that! There’s been a lot of Jewish social justice movements, not Maggie’s like area of research and I don’t know that much, but there have been, believe me!

M: Yeah, there were four Jewish women who basically lead the labor movement in the textile industry

B: Also, Jewish people were super involved in Civil Rights in the 60s. Jewish people weren’t just like not there for that, they were there!

T: Makes sense when you’re also oppressed that you would be part of that. But religion’s good

M: I guess it’s kind of like, loving your neighbor is not like Southern Politeness, loving your neighbor is a really radical idea

T: Yeah, its super radical, it challenges—especially in America and Western Culture—it challenges American individualism, which is huge! And super radical and I think the most radical like movements are focused on challenging that because it feeds into so many harmful power structures and loving your neighbor is all about community and, like, kind of collectivism and mutual aid, so that’s obviously gonna be super radical and…yeah you know what I’m saying

M: I understand what you’re saying, yeah. When I think about how deeply G-d care for the oppressed and how deeply G-d wants us to care for our neighbor, and that includes our oppressed neighbor, and how deeply G-d cares for social change and the end of oppression, I do cry, I do cry

T: It’s emotional to think about

M: So, from our podcast to yours

T: From out podcast to your podcast, (laughs)

M: From out podcast to your podcast, love your neighbor!

T: From our podcast to your heart

M: Love your neighbor by practicing mutual aid and fighting for liberation, is kind of my closing thoughts

T: For people who even aren’t in your minority group, it’s important to fight for everyone’s liberation

B: Liberation can’t only exist for one oppressed group at a time, liberation has to come for everyone, what is it like, none of us are liberated until we all are.

M: None of us are free until all of us are free

T: Who said that? Maya Angelou!

M: Any closing thoughts on the best topic of all time

T: I love it, I love mutual aid, I think I feel so close to G-d when I help other people and also when I feel like they help me

B: It makes me feel so Jewish

T: Yes, it does make me feel so Jewish

B/T: To feed

T: To fucking heal, to be part of a community where you are giving to each other and receiving from each other, this is what I’m talking about, having sex with your friends is mutual aid

(laughter)

T: Anyways, no I’m right. 

B: Theo, listen, neither Maggie nor I have said no it can’t be

T: I know you just are giving me those looks, those looks you give me

M: Go fuck your friends for mutual aid

B: oh my god

T: Go fuck your friends for mutual aid, only if they want to, but like for sure that can be mutual aid I think

B: Bake your local homelss encampment cookies for mutual aid

T: Do literally anything

B: And then be like, y’all are my nieghbors, love you, just walk up and down your block and everyone you see, give them a little kiss on the head, be like “love you!” Obviously with consent.

M: And if they want a kiss on the lips

T: That’s up to you

M: That’s mutual aid

T: But go ahead if you want to

B: That’s up to you, but if you want to respect G-d and practice loving your neighbors

T: Give everyone a kiss on the lips, so our official podcast stance

B: So I would actually say, to love your neighbor, make sure you’re also not trying to make all their choices for them. Make sure you’re respecting their opinions and boundaries

T: I think the thing that’s nice about mutual aid and loving your neighbor is that it’s equally about giving as it is receiving, and so that makes it easier to be like, “hey I’m gonna let you ask for what you need” you know, instead of telling you what you need, which is I think what charity does 

B: Which doesn’t mean that you can’t like see that something is going on and like offer, but never force anyone to take it.

T: Thank you for listening to my ex and my future wife. If you had a good time with us today, you can follow us on Twitter, TikTok, and Instagram, all @mxmfwpod, leave a review if you would like, that helps us, and we also have an email

M: MUTUAL AID!

T: Mutual Aid, leave us a review! We also have an email mxmfwpodcast@gmail.com if you have any questions or things you’d like to hear us talk about, or I don’t know, love letters to send. 

B: Any kind of feedback, you know

T: Any good books about religion that you’d recommend, anything you want

B: Maybe you already wrote a review, and you can’t write another

T: So you have to send us a love letter, that’s always accepted, so thank you for joining us this week, I’m Theo

B: I’m Bridget

M: I’m Maggie

T: And until next time, be gay and question G-d

T (singing): My ex and my future wife